Anthony is still in my life, though he's not in Keven's. I talk to him a couple times a week and sometimes he comes over to grab a bite to eat or something like that. The other night he was here to pick up his tattoo kit and he looked so defeated, so tried. He's not the charismatic, talkative person he once was. He's trying to get into a rehab but there is no funding so he continues to use and get by day to day. He and his gf have no where to live. I won't let him stay here. I still love him and it hurts to see him like this.Keven seems to be doing great. You know how it is, you want to celebrate the progress they are making but it could so easily come crashing down, you learn to just be thankful for each day and have as few expectations as possible. He has four months clean thanks to the cops catching him before he used.
That brings me to my question:
There are a lot of theories on determining how much clean time you have. I am not a stickler one way or another, I don't count his time too much anymore, but I like to have a general idea of how long its been so I know how long he's had it out of his system.
He is being told several things in rehab:
1. You need to change your clean date to the day you got busted because you would have used that day.
2. You can't count the time in jail as real clean time.
3. You have NO clean time as long as you are taking any type of meds for depression and anxiety.
I laugh at the third one because anyone who understands brain chemistry and sees the difference in a person on or off meds knows that this has nothing to do with using drugs or not, it has to do with maintaining the ability to do life well. I am a wreck if I stop taking my anti-depressants so I just keep taking them.
What do you think? Just curious.
Peace, Hope and Love, Barbara
14 comments:
That is positively bogus! Clean time starts the second you make a conscious effort to stop or your ability to use has been thwarted in some way. If you are arrested before you can use, guess what...you didn't use that day = first clean day. You spend 6 months in jail and don't use = 6 months clean. If you have to take medication to live normally, so be it. You are still clean from illegal drugs.
Seriously, where do they come up with this crap? Why make it so complicated?
Not My Boy is exactly right. The rest of this is crap. What counts is clean time. Period.
And, I shudder at those who say that taking psych meds is not being sober. A lot of damage has been done in AA through this thinking. And, anyone who has read the Big Book should be able to see that Bill W. says that therapists, psychologists and psychiatrists have a role to play.
Notmyboy and Jackie, that's how I see it too. Keven knows better than to listen to the people that say taking meds is "wrong" but it bothers him that they want to change his clean date to the day he got busted because he feels better (not a pride issue) calculating from the last time he actually stuck a needle in his arm.
When someone asks about Alex I just respond that "he has been clean siince last summer". or "he "made his decisions last summer". After a lot of thought I came to the conclusion that the day count is not consistent with the philosophy of the disease model and seems contrary to the various 12 step models.
"One day at a time" is the mantra. For me the most important day in my son's life of addiction is TODAY. So when you thing about an addict in recovery i could see the day count as either a badge to wear or baggage to carry. Depends on the individual.
Dad, I couldn't agree with you more...but the problem comes in when you go to several meetings a week and at each meeting are expected to give your number of days/months clean each time you go around the room to introduce yourself. Also, to collect chips. Chips don't mean that much to Keven, but his judge collects them from the people in her court and displays them at the bench. He got to giver her a four month the other day and she hung up with the rest of them.
I'm not sure who the hell is telling him that in a rehab but wouldn't it make sense to aknowledge when he did not use when in jail as an example that he DID go without drugs.And for him to be addressing his depression and anxiety is the best way to start living more true to himself,odaat.
Your kiddo deserves more credit.
Even if he needs to pull up his socks and take more accountability,
all those trying to get by deserve some credit for that - even in rehab.Voluntarily or not.
Barbara-nonsense. Clean time is the last time you USED.
Please see pg 254 of the Big Book of NA (if Kevin doesn't have one, he should), A Serene Heart.."mental illness is an issue outside of NA, dealing with it in his personal recovery is very much an inside issue for him."
Keven may go to a meeting where someone has their opinion on it and is very "superior" about not using meds. Just go to another meeting!
I have been fortunate not to have to have dealt with addiction in my personal life, but I still want to say that #3 is utter bullshit and was created by someone who was totally ignorant of the devastation of mental illness.
My friend does go to N/A meetings and HATES when they start talking about crap like that. He has been sober for 5 years after shooting meth for 3 years and he is an amazing person. If he didn't take a prescription he knows damn well it would be that much harder to stay sober. Keven is doing great and deserves to count everything.
My son problably heard this in a meeting, but I like it and I think it pertains. "If you can't remember the day you had your last hit, then you haven't had it yet". Being clean would start on that day. He hasn't used in 3+ years, but who's counting? I know he's not counting days anymore.
Thank you for each and every comment, I appreciate each one.
I've been around a long time and I've never heard of those. Clean time is the amount of time you have been clean. Our programs have no opinion on "meds." Rehab is NOT a 12 step program it is a business.
Hey Barbara- Fun fact for the day, speaking of "clean time"!
I'm quoting this from an NA message board regarding the "Clarity Statement", which differentiates between "clean" and "sober" and NA and AA...thought you may find it interesting!
"At NA meetings we introduce ourselves as addicts. When our members identify themselves as “addicts and alcoholics” or talk about living “clean and sober,” the clarity of the NA message is blurred. To speak in this manner suggests there are two diseases, that somehow one drug is separate from the rest, requiring special recognition. Our identification as Addicts is all-inclusive, allowing us to concentrate on our similarities not our differences."
That is the very first post in the thread, and here is the link to the rest of the thread...pretty interesting read!
http://na.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=52289&p=3&topicID=9063764
Josh!!! Thanks for coming by and sharing this! Just read through a lot of it.
I'm glad you are doing well, I think of you EVERY day.
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